Hi. My name is Mrs Fever. (Not really; that’s a pseudonym. Shhhh… Don’t tell anyone!) I’m a pseudokinky mongamish polyconversationalist notaDomme. I’m also a pansexual intellectual exhibishadventurist (yes, the subject of labels is gonna come up today) who happens to be easily distracted by shiny things.
And vibrating things…
And… Glass… Things… 
Ahem.
Back to the introductions!
So. My name is Mrs Fever…
I have a vagina and I know how to use it. I also have a strap-on (and I know how to use it), but I’ve got my heart set on a FeelDoe. And I don’t fake orgasms because it would be a huge disservice to myself.
Any questions? 😀
Well, of course there are questions! {Click that link if *either* (1) you want to peruse, ponder, and/or participate in, the various conversations that brought us to this point, *or* (2) you want to check out the cartoonidy. Either way works for me.} But before we get started…
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WARNING: This post contains questionable ~ and answerable ~ material. And possibly… Okay, make that definitely… Some random schtuff. For example…
This has nothing to do with anything. But everytime I think, “Get your head out of your ass!”, this is the picture that pops into my mind.
‘Kayso…
Ready…
On your mark… Get set…
Let’s chat!
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AUDIENCE (That means YOU!) PARTICIPATION REQUESTED
Please expound on any or all of the following:
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First, a holdover from previous posts. There are fantastic conversations going on elsewhere on WordPress that address this subject, and the links are below. Meanwhile, the question remains open: How do *you* define ‘kink’?
- My favorite FemDom, Serendipity McKink (that’s my pet name for her; the rest of you will know her as The Suburban Domme) took this ball and rolled with it, starting here.
- Monkey is hosting a quiz-a-thon of his own, specifically related to D/s kinks. The first post in the series is here.
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Likewise, the subject of cheating has been taken up elsewhere, and the goal of clarifying a collective definition is slowly becoming a reality. Meanwhile, the question remains open: How do *you* define ‘cheating’?
- Intimacy: Intellectual? Emotional? Physical? Sexual? All of the above? One is enough? Enough for what? Take the ball and run with it! 😀
Intimate kink? Kinkimacy?
Well, I warned you there would be random schtuff…
So. Out with the Old!
Erm… What I mean is… Out with the Old Questions… Old *people* can stay. 😉
In with the New!
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How have your perceptions of labels pertaining to sex and sexuality (Kinkster, Fetishist, Swinger, etc) changed over time?
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Do certain labels hold positive meaning for you? Do some have negative connotations? Explain.
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Does positivity/negativity of perception vary and/or depend upon choosing to label yourself vs being labeled by others?
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What have been your experiences with compersion? How has it (or the lack of it) affected your relationship(s)?
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What have been your experiences with age-differentiated relationships? Has age difference (or the lack thereof) or perceived age difference (via online relationships, for example, where age may be an unknown) impacted your decision-making process in a relationship?
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How has technology impacted communication in your relationship(s)?
And, last but not least…
LOVE: If you had to sum it up in one sentence, what would you say?
And speaking of love… I LOVE THESE CONVERSATIONS! 😀 😀 😀
They make me feel like this:
Only, y’know, for real and stuff. (‘Cuz I don’t fake it. Ever.)
Or maybe like this:
Please don’t be shy. I look forward to your insights…
And just because *I* don’t fake it doesn’t mean *you* can’t.
(But if you’re gonna fake it, go all in. Take a cue from Madame le Pig.)
Think! Dissect! Define! Discuss! Talk to me! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! YES!
Heh. 😉
Was it good for you…?
#1 – My perceptions have changed because the connotations have changed or, rather, evolved. They’re more ‘refined’ than in the past, like how wife-swapping has morphed into swinging, something now people can indulge in but being married isn’t a requirement.
#2 – I’m not sure these days; when I was a lot younger, labels were oh, so important and, of course, so was any negativity connected. Today I understand why we label things – how can you call a spade a spade if you don’t know what a spade is – but I also understand an underlying sense of denial when some labels – like bisexual – are summarily dismissed despite the obvious.
#3 – No, not really. I’m aware of my perception of self, just like I’m aware of labels applied to be by others and that these two things might not agree with each other is, if nothing else, interesting; it’s a reminder that how you see yourself might not be what other people see, something to keep in mind.
#4 – Compersion hit me during my very long poly relationship when I truly embraced being happy because they (my partners in crime) were happy. It’s a weird feeling, you know, kinda good, kinda weird? I found that if their happiness made me happy – and with little regard to what (or who) was making them happy – then a lot of that angst that exists in relationships went by the wayside because one of the purposes of being in any relationship is to be happy.
#5 – Sometimes it has and it didn’t have anything to do with the younger person’s ability to love and all that – it’s about being able to relate beyond that and while they say that love conquers all, there are some things that love can’t even take a swing at, like, having common ground to stand upon that doesn’t have anything to do with fucking.
#6 – Ha, all it means is that I can write my baby a love letter and she’ll get it about a minute after I click ‘send’… and that’s despite the fact that she’s in the next room. Still, technology, as great as it is, cannot replace face-to-face communication and unless they find a way for us to plug into each other’s thoughts, technology can never replace this very necessary requirement of relationships.
Last but not least – Love is the most wonderfully self-destructive situation two people can find themselves in together.
Kismet must be at work today. I had just posted a comment on one of your blog entries when this response popped up on my screen. 🙂
Today I understand why we label things – how can you call a spade a spade if you don’t know what a spade is – but I also understand an underlying sense of denial when some labels – like bisexual – are summarily dismissed despite the obvious… / …how you see yourself might not be what other people see…
It’s a matter of perception, I think. And ownership of one’s own identity. For example:
I follow a blog written by a woman who self-identifies as a Butch Lesbian. She has stated that for her, the label of “Butch” makes her feel a part of something greater than herself. She can look around and see other people who are like her, and she can look in the mirror and say, “They are like me; I am like them. I am not alone.” It makes her feel good about herself to apply the “Butch” label to herself. On the other hand, there are Lesbian members of her readership who ~ while totally accepting of the author’s choice to label herself as Butch ~ do not wish to label themselves as such, even though the general populace might. It’s a matter, for them, of not wanting to feel boxed in. Readers who feel that way tend to leave comments along the lines of, “Sure, I wear men’s jeans and demonstrate traditionally ‘masculine’ behaviors, but I’m also __________. So if I call myself “Butch”, I’m backing myself into a corner.”
I try to listen carefully when people are identifying themselves in any sort of sexual manner. I have a brother who self-identifies as a Bear. We’ve had conversations about what that means to him. I have a nephew who, despite the fact that he’s only ever had sexual relationships with men, self-identifies as bisexual. It’s a label he’s chosen, and he wears it proudly. Despite the fact that others would label him differently.
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Your response to the age-differentiation question brings up a couple of other points to consider.
1. How big of a gap in age is too big of a gap?
2. Outside of sex and sexuality, what forms of ‘common ground’ are most important?
Also: You mention “the younger person” in your response. Who tends to be “the younger person” in your relationships? You? Or your partner? Hmmm… That might be a question to pose in a future post.
Well, I like older women so I tend to be either the same age as they are or, as in my current relationship, my lady is almost three years older than I am. Having said that, it’s my own thought that an age difference of more than ten years is too much because of your second question: Commonality. It can be as simple as one’s taste in music, for instance; too young and rap/hip-hop is the flavor of the day, too old and memories of listening to “The Platters” can be found to be too stodgy.
Life experiences are another area and simply not enough life experience versus too much. Granted, there are situations where someone younger has had more experiences than someone who’s older but this, too, is one of those common ground things that are the building blocks of a relationship – it’s a difference that makes a difference.
They say that age is only a number and when it comes to loving and being loved, well, the numbers don’t mean a whole lot IF relationships were just based on love alone…which they are not.
I know someone who was having a relationship with someone 20 years younger than they were; they had plenty of lust, something they both thought was love… but when the relationship crashed and burned (she left him) it was because they had nothing else in common with each other; she couldn’t relate to him any better than he could relate to her.
Kinda drives home something,doesn’t it, that a relationship isn’t just a thing to be in – it’s a thing both people have to do with each other…
…my lady is almost three years older than I am…
It’s always fascinating to me to see how people interpret the whole concept of ‘age difference’. Three years, for example. To some, three years is three years too many. To others, three years is no difference at all.
…it’s my own thought that an age difference of more than ten years is too much…
So is it safe to assume that you choose to follow a “decade” rule? Ten years difference either direction (younger/older) being too much of a gap for you to feel comfortable?
…the numbers don’t mean a whole lot IF relationships were just based on love alone…which they are not…
Excellent point. I think I’ll add that to the list of things to address next time around. What *are* relationships based on?
…a relationship isn’t just a thing to be in – it’s a thing both people have to do with each other…
Another excellent point. I read somewhere (damned if I can remember where, exactly) recently that in any relationship, there are essentially three dynamics: Person A, Person B, and the relationship itself. The relationship itself is a living, breathing thing. It can be influenced positively or negatively by the people in it, as well as by outside forces. So keeping the relationship alive and thriving is a commitment. Some people have the ability to make relationships *look* easy… But they are not. They are a lot of work. And you’re absolutely right. A relationship is something you must actively participate in. It’s something you DO. And you can’t do it passively.
The New Teste-ment according to Goofy.
1. I think labels have their place, but only if it adds a sense of belonging. If you are labeled in an unwanted fashion I’m sure it leads to doubt, insecurity and ultimately a sense of negative self image. My rule with many thing is, if it feels good, do it. If you like the sense of identity, fantastic! Just don’t label others maliciously.
2. I’ll refer back to my answer at 1. It depends on context and acceptance. Things many of us only find in quiet circles, behind closed doors or online.
3. See 1. And 2.
4. I think this one is tricky. There are some out there who naturally take joy in the joy of others. I think human nature is wired to be selfish, as a survival instinct. I think people can grow into this, gain an understanding for this feeling. Sometimes by choice, sometimes by situation. I find it a very worthy feeling, worth working toward.
5. I think it has it’s challenges and it’s value. Generational experience and perceptions can be exciting but if not treated with a mutual level of understanding, I think it’s easy for a gap to develop that both use as an excuse for problems.
6. I love how tchnology has changed how we expirience love and lust. You can see technology explored a lot in my writing, how it heightens yet distances attraction and arousal. How we are lulled into intimacy and desensitized by the cold nature of screens, keyboards and cameras. The best and worst thing to happen to sex since the invention of pornography.
7. Love is the chaotic serenity of being right for each other’s hearts.
Nice Pluto pic!
-Goofy
1. I agree. There is a huge difference between fostering a sense of inclusiveness and ‘other’-ising people.
2. Acceptance. That would definitely be a positive outcome of technology’s influence on relationships, don’t you think? The whole idea of being able to “find your tribe” ~ on a global scale ~ and therefore being able to find acceptance. If nothing else, the desire to *be accepted* is a powerful motivator.
3. Yes, I see 1. Oooh, he’s doing deliciously wicked things to 2… 😉
4. How does one go about actively “working toward” it, I wonder? Is it something that can be segmented into psychological how-to’s? Or is it inherent to one’s personality, I wonder? As in, either you have it… Or you don’t. What do you think?
5. It’s an easy fall-back, I think, to use age as “an excuse” for why things aren’t clicking. In some ways it’s the “we grew up on opposite sides of the tracks” argument, I think. You can choose to work with it, or you can choose to make it a barrier. Depends on the person and the situation, I believe.
6. LOVE the comparison between technology and pornography. Fascinating concept!
7. Awww…
Glad you liked my Pluto pic. I posted it just special for you. 😀
I think 4 and 6 are my favorite questions. 6 already was for me, as I said. 4 is a newer concept for me. I think you can be changed. I think you can decide to alter your perspective. I also think some people might never reach it. I do think it was a beautiful concept.
I don’t follow any rules in this; I prefer to deal with the facts as I can interpret them and observation has shown me that relationships with a ten-year difference has some… interesting problems dealing with the commonality issue. I know people who think that one year in age difference is catastrophic, by the way…
Do I think I could be in a relationship with someone ten years younger… or even ten years older? Probably and despite the fact that in the past, I’ve not done well with folks too much younger and older than I am. Back then, I didn’t understand the concept of creating common ground where none seems to exist – but I kinda understand it now.
I’ve said my version of the tripartite: There’s me, there’s you, and there’s us and all three parts have to be managed, it’s not easy, they are not self-correcting, self-repairing, or none of that pie in the sky shit a lot of people think they are: It takes constant work to make relationships work and the bigger the difference in age, the harder it is to pull off successfully because of the lack of commonality in things other than lust and love.
Don’t get me wrong – people do manage to get it done… but because their love and commitment to the relationship drives the whole thing: “Us” and not “me.” You’re aware of the differences but instead of seeing them as a hindrance, you see opportunities to learn and grow together.
Oh WOW!
You go Girl!
I’m playing catch here, the back and forth chatter in the comments is amazing…… an awesome read to go with my morning coffee!!
I already have a new word for my kink vocab…”Kinkimacy”……I’m soooooooo stealing that….and all this is going to make some great mind candy while I am pounding away on the treadmill this morning!
Picturing Serendipity running… In stilettos… On her “treadmill”… Otherwsie known as “Monssieur Notasub”… 😉
You mentioned that you have a strap on an know how to use it. How do u use it? I have one for my Mrs and she is not too keen on using it in that manner. She prefers to Han hold the dildo and enter me like that. Not that I’m complaining. I’ll take it back there any way I can. (I’m a bit of a slut that way) but I wish she would wear it. Any advise?
There are a variety of reasons she may prefer not to wear it. So not knowing what her specific reasons are makes your question somewhat difficult to answer. Have you asked her why?
Not that it is even remotely possible to speak for “women in general”, but… Generally speaking…
Sometimes harnesses can be uncomfortable; they bite into a woman’s hips or the material chafes.
Sometimes the whole contraption can be a bit unwieldy; females are unaccustomed to balancing a weighted protrusion, and it feels awkward.
Sometimes fear of hurting her partner is a factor; she has fine motor control and tactile awareness of tensile strength when she’s using her hands, whereas thrusting her hips carries the strength of her whole body.
Sometimes gender identity questions/concerns come into play.
Finding out what your wife’s specific discomfort(s) is/are, asking for what you want, and listening to what *she* wants and/or is willing to give… That’s about the only advice I can offer.
“Generally speaking” 🙂
Mrs. Fever has just defined the “how’s and why’s” of whys of even tho I own a strap on and know how to use it…I choose to not use it for anything other than “costume play”.
The gender factor issues didn’t come into the equation for my husband and me…but the rest of it is spot on.
I have a lower back injury that made it extremely painful to use the strap-on in the fashion it is intended….and I have yet to find a harness that doesn’t drive me bat shit crazy with either the way it sits on my hips, leave bruises of some kind or doesn’t make me itch like I rolled in poison ivy.
Also I much prefer the “tactile feel” she spoke of.
I have more control using the dildo hand held and I’ll always prefer using my hands and fingers to any toy, because a large portion of the arousal factor for me…is the skin to skin contact.
And absolutely do as Mrs. Fever suggested…..talk to your wife and find out why she doesn’t use it with a harness. Better to know the answer then to guess…guessing can lead to things getting out of whack. 😉
Good advice all around. I know that she is uncomfortable with the motion and she fears hurting me. But I tell her to bring it! Lol!
Thank you Mrs. Fever for that clip from Harry met Sally. I love that clip and laughed my ass off when I watched it. I have fake orgasms (to many of them) in my life, mostly because I wanted to get it over with (Sad but True) Today I do not fake them. I actually try to stop them for a few different reasons, one being I have already had two or three or four and I am becoming dehydrated and two by holding off means a better, bigger one when I do cum.
1. How have your perceptions of labels pertaining to sex and sexuality (Kinkster, Fetishist, Swinger, etc) changed over time?
My perception has changed over the last few months. As Momma Suburban Domme (I say Momma with the utmost respect, to me she is wise, compassionate, encouraging, fun and real,, everything I feel a momma should be) We all have kinks, its a matter of finding what your is. I also feel that I am not a freak or something is wrong with me for thoughts I have and things I enjoy. This is a blessing and is allowing me to grow.
As for labels they are necessary for all of us…”YOU GOT TO GET IN WHERE YOU FIT IN” Without them it would be a lot harder to find where you fit in. For myself a label gives a person a small window into another person, it does not make the person, it just tells you a little about the person. To judge another by a label shows that persons ignorance. Two thing then happen, either the person has an open mind is willing to look at things from another perspective, or the person is going to stick with what they originally believe and if that is the case I have no time for such a person.
This is all I have time for at the moment…I will be back later to finish…
That is an awesome cliip, isn’t it? 😀
The Miss Piggy one is even better, I think. Especially if you watch Meg Ryan first. 😉
As for the “faking it” ~ I think Sally (as in, When Harry Met Sally) is right. It’s pretty common. So, I think, is intentionally holding back. Speaking from my own experience, I get a lot more enjoyment out of an orgasm if I “edge” myself first. It’s like a slow climb to the top of the first hill of a rollercoaster. The almost, almost, almost… feeling heightens the anticipation and sharpens the senses. So when I finally crest that first hill and start flying downward, the “butterfly” feeling is just… MORE. More intense, more other-worldly, more… Just MORE. So I’m all about Edging; not so much in terms of orgasm denial, per se… But intentional orgasm delay, I like. I like a lot. In fact, I LOVE. Each pleasure plateau sets my senses buzzing, stronger and stronger each time. So when I finally experience The Big O, it’s nothing short of fireworks.
“Waiter… I’ll have what she’s having.” 😉
I love your nickname for The Suburban Domme. She’s gonna have about a thousand pseudonyms by the time we’re done with her, I think. Serendipity McKink… Momma Suburban Domme… S.M. (S&M), the MSD. Or maybe s/D. Ha! 😛
I shall look forward to your return, Sarah. Meanwhile, kudos for this: For myself a label gives a person a small window into another person, it does not make the person, it just tells you a little about the person. I LIKE IT! 🙂
2.Do certain labels hold positive meaning for you? Do some have negative connotations? Explain.
I would have to say yes and more about being aware.You have to show me directly for me to form a negative opinion of you If I hear about someone and am told they are a thief, I will be conscious of them and my purse. I will not just assume they are a thief by what someone else told me, but I would be aware. What I mean is I will not tie my purse to my side, but will keep an eye on it. Like I do normally anyways. If someone tells me someone else is a pretty princess, I will think she has her own style and she likes it.I am very nonjudgmental. We all bleed, we all feel, we all love. we all hurt. The only negative label I have a hard time not being judgmental about is people with a lot of money. Who did not earn their money but it was handed to them. The ones I have met were all assholes and I find I want to put everyone in that category which is not right.
3.Does positivity/negativity of perception vary and/or depend upon choosing to label yourself vs being labeled by others?
This is a hard question, I think it has a lot to do with self-esteem. For myself giving myself a label gives me the power of it. I call myself ‘poor white trash’ and to me it means that i do not have a lot of money and I am white. Now if someone calls me ‘poor white trash’ chance are they are trying to put me down. But are unable to because I have already owned it myself so my thoughts don’t go that way. In high school when I was called a slut I never took it personally even though I was, i also knew that the ones calling me a slut had no clue what I was doing and with whom.
My man said ” I don’t need labels I can offend myself, bring myself down, don’t need anyone to do that, need an apology,Don’t t have one, FU You can’t bring me down (ST) ”
Again it goes back to labels are just a small window about another person.
4.What have been your experiences with compersion? How has it (or the lack of it) affected your relationship(s)?
Ok I had to look up compersion….and the truth is I have not dealt with that at all. I can say I am happy when my ex’s are in a happy relationship after I am gone. Or my friends are in happy relationships, that makes me happy. But my lover being invested in another relationship, takes time away from me and that would make me rammy more than happy.
5.What have been your experiences with age-differentiated relationships? Has age difference (or the lack thereof) or perceived age difference (via online relationships, for example, where age may be an unknown) impacted your decision-making process in a relationship?
until my relationship now I have always been with guys a few years older than me. 5 being the most. My man and I are the same age, him being like 34 days older than me, and we have so much more in common. I love it. I think a big age difference makes the relationship a lot harder. I also find that I will look for issues in each of the people to explain to myself why they would want to work on a relationship with a lot of years between them.
6. How has technology impacted communication in your relationship(s)?
For me, it allows me to know where he is most of the time. In the summer we camp and I usually go down first, and he comes down after work. If it gets late I don’t start worrying because he has called me and told me. Last summer he had welding tanks in the trunk of the car, I knew when he left home and had an idea when he would show up. Had I not had this information I would of worried the whole time. I also like it because I can send him pictures of myself or parts of myself to him. As for the computer and internet it distracts me and sometimes leaves him feel neglected.
And, last but not least…
LOVE: If you had to sum it up in one sentence, what would you say?
Love is the thing that helps us grow and be the best we can be, without it we would wither and die.
You make an excellent point about awareness. I think it also depends on the source. If person A tells me that person B is a thief, but I happen to know that person B is a drug addict… Well, let’s just say I’m not about to have a lot of faith in what person B is telling me. Likewise, negative sexual stigmatization, a la “She’s a slut.” In my experience, it’s guys who have been jilted who say that. And I’ve only ever heard the label applied *negatively* to women. It’s a double standard, and sometimes I fear it will never go away.
Thank you for taking the time to look up the meaning of ‘compersion’. It’s one of those words that’s somewhat open to interpretation, so I opted not to define it in this post. I get what you are saying about being happy for ex-lovers when they are happy with someone new. It’s a little different in its manifestation, but it’s still a sharing of joy. 🙂
I also find that I will look for issues in each of the people to explain to myself why they would want to work on a relationship with a lot of years between them.
I think a lot of people feel that way. And, speaking as “the younger woman” in an age-differentiated relationship, I can tell you that people ~ when they are outside looking in ~ can be incredibly judgmental about a relationship they know absolutely nothing about. Prejudices and stereotypes come through loud and clear with every rude remark and nasty glance. It’s gotten better over the years, but it still takes me by surprise sometimes by how venomous people can be.
You make an excellent point about technology both aiding and inhibiting communication. We have greater access… But do we really connect?
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Chit Chat Paddywhack? <—Love it 🙂 OK, time to get serious. Age-differentiated relationships… I once dated a Women 12 years older than myself and dated Girls younger than myself. Which did I prefer? I'll have to say, the Cougar was a lot more FUN. She had a lot more experience and taught me a thing or two sexually also, the whole relationship just felt so naughty. I would not want to marry somebody that much older than myself but, for a good time, There is nothing like a horny, mature, divorcée to bring me to my knees and to beg for mercy.
So, I’m curious: For you… The cougar thing…
You say, “I would not want to marry somebody that much older than myself but, for a good time, There is nothing like a horny, mature, divorcée…”
With an older woman, you’d be in it for sex but not for love?
It was more of a curiosity dating an older Woman. I Was I in it for love or sex? I never dated anyone that much older than myself before. Yeah, I entered the relationship with an open mind, maybe I would find true love with Her. What I found was some of the best sex I have ever experenced in my life! Great sex is not enough for having a happy long term relationship. I enjoy going to concerts or going out dancing. She would just want to stay at home and cuddle (boring). There was just too much of an age difference and it seemed like She just couldn’t keep up with me. I learned my lesson and I only date Women that are close to my age.
Interesting that you attribute your difference in interests to your difference in age, as opposed to just a difference in personalities or a difference in preferences. If she had been your own age, would you have interpreted her tendency to be a home-body a little differently? Hmmm…
You’re right that great sex does not a relationship make. It’s a key ingredient to a successful relationship though, in my opinion.
How did you come to start dating Ms Cougar, anyway? You said it was “a curiosity” and that you went into it with an open mind… But how did you meet? Considering your preference for younger women, and her preference for staying home, you’ve got *my* “curiosity” piqued.
Sassy, I take that “Mamma” label…as a compliment and it is quite humbling. Thank you.
(And call me whatever…just don’t call me late for last call!! 😉 )
1/2/3/4:
I like the way Sassy said a label is a window into who/what the person is. I am most comfortable around, most trusting of people who can take what is considered a negative label and not only own it……. but show people why they are wrong when they see the label in a negative light. My own perceptions of anyone who lives an alternate lifestyle and claims the labels that goes with, has become more fine-tuned, more in focus………. as I get to know the folks who do live the lifestyles. I find myself claiming labels now days that even five years ago I would have said “Hey that’s cool for them…but not for me.” I never saw alternative lifestyles as wrong…just never saw myself as part of that group…..man how things have changed!
All labels have positive and negative to them.
We have to choose if we are going to use the label as a weapon to do harm or as reinforcement to self-empowerment for ourselves and for the ones we care about.
We control the designation/perception of any label in how we use it or how we react to it.
Just the label “kinky”………… out of my mouth can make or break my husband. He’s hypersensitive to the negative effects his kinky nature has had on us as a couple; the way I use just that one label can make him want to crawl under a rock and die or it can make him feel more comfortable in his skin as a kinkster.
One of the reasons I find myself on the proverbial “kinksters aren’t creeps” soap box, speaking out on the fact being a kinkster isn’t a negative thing for society, that kinksters aren’t detrimental to the civilization of humankind is to show him he should be comfortable in his skin, that he has no reason to be ashamed. He’s a good man, he has morals, he is a productive part of society, being kinky is just a facet of who he is…not WHO he is.
That one label does not define him as a whole person, just as the label “male” doesn’t define all the facets of who he is in his gender.
My own labels…just working with two that are standard and obvious labels for me….. “dominant woman” depending on who is using the labels…..I am either a emasculating ball busting hellabitch….or I am a woman who knows what she wants and goes after it.
How do I see myself? As all of the above it……… depends on the frame of mind of the person who labeled me. I can choose to disprove I am a hellabitch or I can drive home the fact I’m a nightmare hellabitch….it will all depends on how the person using the label………uses it. My own husband has been on the receiving end of me being a hellabitch nightmare because he chose to call me a dominate woman in a tome that made it clear he was dissing the “dominate factor” of who I am.
5/
Kdaddy23 said:
~~~there are some things that love can’t even take a swing at, like, having common ground to stand upon that doesn’t have anything to do with fucking.~~~
BINGO!
Husband and guy #3…..both just a few months older than me….our ground is “totally common”.
Guy #2 is almost six years younger than me…and tho that doesn’t seem like a lot….there are times it is a chasm. As kdaddy pointed out the age difference certainly doesn’t affect our ability to fuck each other’s brains out….but it does leave an odd feeling between us that I can’t put words to.
Not so much uncomfortable…but it is there. I don’t know that it has affected the decision making process…..but then that’s not something I have given much thought to because the relationship is peripheral and in the long run doesn’t have a huge bearing on my life overall. That six years is enough for us to have different views of the world overall.
Would it be enough to interfere with a relationship if we were a steady couple? Maybe—maybe not…I know there is a certain comfort that goes with knowing husband and guy #3 “get what I am talking about” because we are so close in age and the difference can me right between the eyes when we get to doing the “back when stuff”.
One night…..I made the comment I got my first “real kiss” the summer of 1974, I was a few weeks away from turning 14…..….he laughed and said…
“Hmmm summer of 74 I just got the training wheels off my bike.”
**UGH**
I suddenly had this “Coo-coo-cahchew Mrs. Robinson” feeling and that feeling still hits me once in a while when he is talking about his childhood / teen years….that “odd feeling” I can’t put words to.
6/
Technology is what saved my sanity and took the angst out of my husband’s kink nature for me. It gave me access to a whole group of people I didn’t have, but desperately needed. I helped me get a grip on all the destructive emotions that were thrashing my ego and self-worth as his sexual partner.
Being able to have conversations with people who could relate to how my husband felt…..having the conversations with them and being able to speak my mind without fear of doing damage to the person I am invested in……in the relationship I am in…..gave me a better view of what makes him tick and helped me understand it wasn’t ME that prevented him from feeling fulfilled in his sexual nature and with some adjustments we could both have what we wanted and needed and it gave us the tools to be able to talk to each other with being defensive.
The fact he has had a chance to talk to women who were trying to cope the same way I was…..with men like him…..made him see I wasn’t being difficult…….trying to “cheat him” out of having something he wanted that I was giving him all I had and he was being an ass by trying to push for more and that he needed to start appreciating what he had instead of being focused on what he thought he was doing without.
Labels & Perceptions of Labels & Ownership of Labels ~
Joel just commented about his “Cougar” experience with a woman 12 years his senior, and then you shared your “Mrs Robinson” squinge reaction you had with a lover six years your junior. It makes me wonder…
1. Do you self-identify as a Cougar?
2. Do you consider the label of Cougar to have positive or negative implications for you/your relationship(s)?
3. Why?
Common Ground ~
Interestingly enough, I share very little “in common” with people of my own age group. Yes, people my age all grew up under the same general national influences… But we are all individual products of ~ to use a backwoodsism ~ our raisin’. And the way I was raised… Let’s just say most of my peers didn’t ‘get’ it. I learned early on to find common ground outside of age: interests, beliefs, habits, attitude, education, motivation, language… I’ve associated with people of mixed ages for the majority of my life, and I tend to be drawn to people ~ both younger and older ~ who fall well outside my own age range. And here’s a completely unsolicited fun fact about Feve: I have zero sexual interest in people my own age; I tend to feel more sibling-type affinity than anything else.
Another fun fact: Smotch (le spouse) was getting his first “real kiss” in 1971. I was *born* in 1976.
Technology ~
It saved your sanity, you say? So, you’re… Sane…? 😛
It’s amazing, isn’t it? I love the example you give of how your husband could talk to other women who were in *your* shoes, but without the entanglements of of being in a relationship with them… Thus, allowing him to more clearly see the other side of the story. So often, when we are in a relationship with someone ~ especially long-term ~ we have so many designs on each other that it can be hard to cut through all the past history and really get to the meat of the matter. What starts out as a discussion about a THING (a desire, an interest, a fetish, a want) can devolve into an argument about a PERSON (*you* don’t desire me, *you* are not interested, etc). Technology has provided a broader community with whom to connect and can be an asset to the communication process. 🙂
Identifying with or as a cougar:
Nope.
My concept of a cougar:
A woman who has a specific “age range” for the guys she’s scoping out. The women I know who identify with the cougar label all tend to look for men in the age range between 27ish to 40ish…give or take a year.
Age doesn’t play into the “gotta have to be attracted to” for me.
(In fact age doesn’t really factor into any of my relationships over all, it is more about maturity level…I know women who are my age (52) who are more immature then my nine year old nephew…and I know teens who are more mature then my oldest daughter)
I look at Luke Bryan and think “Yeah I’d like to check that boy for ticks”…….but then I wouldn’t pass up the chance to pounce on Robert Duval or Tommy Lee Jones.
I didn’t know guy #2’s age until a good two months into the relationship….and it really didn’t faze me until the “took the training wheels off my bike” comment.
As a teen….. I was attracted to older guys…but that had more to do with the fact they were more urbane……their idea of date was bit more than a six pack and the back row at the drive in.
I was a “Dutch treat” style date…I knew the guys I dated weren’t in any better financial shape then I was…..so I always insisted we split the cost of a date….and I found older guys were more appreciative of this mind set and didn’t think it meant I was gonna bank roll extravagant dates built around their juvenile itches.
===Age is mind over matter……if you don’t mind……….. it don’t matter===
I know couples who have years between them……and the age difference…..not a stress point that keeps them from finding common ground. One thing I notice that is always a common denominator in the relationships that are stable:
The younger of the two is more mature then the people in their age group…and they relate to people older than them without awkwardness. I would bet large chunk of my boot fund on the fact this is a strong trait in your personality.
****An totally off topic and off the charts…I wonder if you aren’t like my youngest daughter…..who was told at age nine by a friend who is a Shawman…she(the daughter) was born with a “sage soul”.
At age three…..she told me she didn’t like kids her age because they acted like such babies—–yes it was all I could do to not laugh.
That line of thought is in her core even now…. at 27……her “core group” friends are all at least ten years older and the only person she has any patient for that is younger than her is her “baby brother” who is 19…but she’ll tell anyone who will listen…. she started grooming him early so she could enjoy having a younger brother instead of having to tolerate him.****
I can think of two relationships with a pretty good span in the ages that blew up…… and on both counts….. it was because the younger person was juvenile in their thought process and actions.
One was my sister….at the time 28 and acted like a 14 year old brat ( and now at 47 she’s still that 14 year old brat)……… the other was a friend who at 56 married a 19 year old…and well hell…..some 19 year olds are just that…19….she wasn’t so much “immature” as she was just well hell 19. She was a sweet “kid” kid being the operative….and the guy she married was a class A cretin.
Sane…(*giggles*) ummmm(*giggling louder*)…
Well….errr……..uuhhhhhhhh….
Sane(*shifty eyes*)…..
Welll….sane is relative?
(*snort/giggle*)
Amazing……is a word that only scratches the tip of what the connection to others “like us” did for us.
Being able to talk to others…… male and female who are hard wired for kink…..who struggle the same way he does with this part of his nature…the good and the bad……taught me so much about why he responded the way he did and WHY that response or lack of response….. wasn’t a reflection on his attraction to me or his love for me.
And yes……the women he could talk to without a “vest interest” in them and be able to say things to them…..ask them questions that he knew were sure fire—fire starters—for me…..helped him get a more realistic view of what he was asking me to do so he could have what he wanted.
It’s why my blog exists……in hopes the “amazing technology” can help other couples who are struggling to find some “sanity” in the insanity” of what lop sided kink natures can do to a couple.
I don’t know how “sage” I am…..I’m rather partial to lavendar and thyme…..but I’ve been told many times that I’m an “old soul.” Apparently, my spirit was born with wrinkles. It’s taken the rest of me a little extra time to acquire them. 😉
You ask, “Welll…..sane is relative?”
Not *MY* relatives, that’s for damn sure. 😛
🙂 😛
1) Kink is anything that I feel the need to tell, or maybe warn a new partner about. This could include squirting or anything under the BDSM acronym, or possibly that I have a sexual attraction to villains. I don’t like to toss around the word “normal” but if I feel like it’s not what is expected in sexuality, it’s kink.
2) Cheating is forming an emotional bond outside of your relationship (whether that relationship is with one or two or more people, etc) or physical closeness that hasn’t been expressly granted. I don’t care about hugs and hand holding, or even cuddling. I care about kissing (one of the most intimate things you can do, in my opinion), and I care about foreplay and fucking (unless we’re in an open relationship). Communication is key.
3) Intimacy is so huge. Emotional intimacy, yes. Physical, yes. Intellectual, hell yes. I can desire some one because of a deep conversation alone. There are so many different types of intimacy, and I believe you can have intimacy with more than just your partner. I believe you should, even. I really think, again, that communication plays a role in intimacy.
1) We live in a world of labels. When I was younger, I used to call myself “kinky” but I’ve realized over time, that even though I define kink a certain way, I don’t think I’m kinky… I think I’m just me. The things I like are normal to me. I don’t like the word fetishist, because I think fetish is losing the true meaning of its definition due to overuse.
2) I think that people in the BDSM community are quick to judge, and why not? WIITWD is very serious, can be dangerous both physically and emotionally, and yet, how unfair that people come into the community seeking acceptance and find judgement? I think the term day-player, or player has become very negative and is someone who is not a “lifestyler” which has a positive connotation. So what if someone only “scenes” (that’s a verb) rather than lives the lifestyle? It doesn’t mean that they don’t take it as seriously. It’s not a label, but I find the term “topping from the bottom” to be personally offensive, but I’ve waxed poetic on that too much over at my own blog.
3) Absolutely. For example, if I label myself a freak, that is fine, I mean it in one way. If someone else labels me “freak” that is not fine, because more than likely, they mean it in quite another way.
4) I live to see the ones that I love happy, so I suppose it does affect my relationships. On occasion it affects me negatively.
5) I’ve had quite a bit of experience with age-differences, starting very young. I find that when I have dated or seen older men, I have a tendency to either try to rule them/break them/be a brat to them or defer to them. As always, I seek the counsel of more experienced and sometimes older people when making big decisions, and so that was natural.
6) Technology has been wonderful! Dirty pictures, skype sex during the work day or when traveling, and constantly connected any time we have the desire to be. I dig it.
Love is at once the simplest and most complicated experience that life has to offer.
Kink is anything that I feel the need to tell, or maybe warn a new partner about.
I like this. ‘Kink’ is a sort of…..nebulous…..thing. And it never really contorts itself into one specific shape or recognizable form, because what is ‘normal’ to one person is not necessarily what is ‘normal’ to another…..and kink is often described as a deviation from ‘normal’…..which has unique individual interpretations, based on personal history, culture, belief system, philosophical construct, etc. For me personally… To do anything that deviates from my own norm is highly unlikely. Therefore, how can I be kinky? How my actions are perceived by others, however? That…..may be a different story. So I feel a strong affinity for these words of yours: I don’t think I’m kinky…I think I’m just me.
And these: I can desire some one because of a deep conversation alone.
One of the people I am most attracted to is a man I have never seen in person. We’ve shared months worth of conversations via email (ahhh…the wonders of technology…le swoon), and as a result, intellectual intimacy has grown into something… MORE. And I’ll be the first to tell you: My largest, most sensitive erogeneous zone is my brain. 😉 So if you give good “head”… Let’s just say… It turns me on, and then some.
As for labels… I know you’ve met my friend Serendipity, so I’m going to give you these links to check out. This is Madame McKink’s take on labels: http://thesuburbandomme.com/2013/03/26/labels-are/ and the follow up http://thesuburbandomme.com/2013/03/27/dont-eat-the-cat-food-check/.
Now: Please pardon me for one moment while I retrieve a soapbox on which to stand. 😉
The judgment thing… One of the reasons I avoid “communities” is because of the judgment factor. It’s a natural behavior (basic human psychology) within marginalized groups to marginalize one another even further within that group (i.e., the insult “You’re not __________ enough”), and it frustrates me. The intentional creation of hierarchies and divisions based on the idea that “We do __________ the RIGHT way. Everyone else does it WRONG.”
Yes, there are some things that are blatantly WRONG. Nonconsent is WRONG. Sexual activity with children is WRONG. But unfortunately, there is often a “You’re doing it wrong!” attitude amongst the members of the ‘established’ “community” that grinds my nerves.
If what I’m doing is working for me…and for my partner…within our own relationship dynamic…then it’s not “wrong.” We are doing what’s right for US, and nobody else can decide what IS or IS NOT right (or wrong!) for US…but US.
So I have no desire to be part of ‘alternate lifestyle communities’.
I agree with your sentiment about exclusivity though. It’s saddens me when people who *should* be supportive of one another spend their time instead tearing one another down. As you said: …how unfair that people come into the community seeking acceptance and find judgement.
An interesting conversation, I seemed to have arrived late. But, nice guys finish last and I always like to hear, I’m so glad you came.
A theme I would tend to dwell more on has been touched upon by quite a few. Age differences and commonality of experience. Those two subjects influence pretty much all social contact. My oldest sibling is 14 years older than me. We see things differently partly due to the age difference. And two of my sisters married men more than 10 years older than them. That created extra friction between me and them because the age difference between us was quite large, and it usually took the form of them being patronizing. But a large age difference does have another downside in a long term relationship. The older partner will probably die first. Both of those sisters have outlived their husband. I have dated women as much as 22 years older than me, I have had one date with someone 8 years younger than me. The young date was a blind date when a friend needed a date for his dates friend. At the end of the evening, I told him don’t ever do that again. I was 27 she was 19. And that was the problem, she was 19, very immature but a nice person.
My parents grew up during the depression. I was raised in the same way that a lot of boomers were. There again you get commonality. Technology wise things are different now. I grew up with a TV in the house, 3 channels plus PBS. When I talk to someone that’s about the same age, they remember the same shows. My parents didn’t have TVs growing up. When they were little they didn’t even have radios. My mom grew up in a small city, they had electricity, they had a phone, they did not have running water until her teen years. My dad grew up in the country. Before rural electrification you lived about the same as people over a hundred years ago, no phone, no electricity, no refrigeration, food that had to be kept cool you tied a rope to and lowered into the well. A millennial is not going to relate to that. Harold and Maude is a bit of a large age gap.
I didn’t intend to write a book, I see it’s getting long. I haven’t even talked about sex yet and already it’s long! If you put wrinkle remover on a raisin and a prune do you get a grape and a plum?
Self labeling is better than being called a sicko. Richard Pryor used the N word a lot. Rappers use it often. It doesn’t go over as well if a skinhead uses it. Part of it is ownership, but that is still one part. If the label is intended to hurt it really doesn’t matter which term is used, it’s still hurtful. There was an old joke, if you want to seduce speak French, if you want to insult speak German. A lesson from the world of pets, they don’t understand all the words but they know when you’re mad and when you’re in a cuddle mood.
In the pre digital era, labels were needed simply for finding like minded individuals.
Commonality of experience doesn’t have to mean equal or near equal ages. People of different ages could meet after or because of a disaster. They could meet through a shared interest {other than sex I mean}. There’s a lot there and I didn’t categorize my reply. I remember a quote from someone, if the paper is ruled one way write the other way. I did like the Miss Piggy clip. And the clips actually reinforced in my mind what I was getting at. I had seen parodies, but I had never seen the original movie.
Wild
Welcome, Wild. Good to see you. So glad you came. (Well, you said you liked to hear it! 😉 )
Commonalities based on similar/shared experience(s) ~ tragic or otherwise ~ are easier for me to find than automatically assuming similarities/understanding based on age. But like I told Lady Serendipity, that may be due to my rather odd-one-out type childhood.
Not that there’s anything odd about me. I’m actually fairly evenly distributed.
Heh. 😀
You brought up your lack of commonality with a 19-year-old. I don’t think many people have much in common with 19-year-olds. (Not even other 19-year-olds.) The human head isn’t finished fully forming until the age of 25. There is a huge difference in maturity {in general, and ~ of course ~ in my (humble) opinion} between the under-25 and over-25 sets, and that difference is steeped in biological fact. Of course, another little biological truism is the fact that many women experience what my mother calls “The 25-Year Spread.” It’s the age at which our hips seem to widen of their own accord. Which can be helpful, I suppose, when dealing with ‘fully formed head(s)’. *grin*
I’m glad you liked the Miss Piggy clip. 😀
“I’ll have what she’s having… But with less pepper.”
Or maybe with *more* pepper. I like a little spice in my life. 😉
Oh, and… I don’t speak French. But I like their salad dressing.
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More than a few days late, and many dollars short. You’re still getting my two cents. 😉
This has been a really tricky one. I fluctuate my thinking about whether I’ve truly experienced compersion – giving or receiving. It seems to be dancing on a knife’s edge, just waiting for a mistake to wreck it. Emotions, needs, moods, and relationships change so much that compersion seems easy at first. Maintaining it, on the other hand, seems damn difficult. Especially if there aren’t incredibly strong foundations, awareness, communication, and reciprocity.
Although reciprocity sounds kinda fucked-up in a contradictory way. Why would you need to reciprocity if it’s true compersion? Your happiness is because of the other person(s) happiness, not because of how the person acts, feels, or responds to you. Wouldn’t that actually be negating compersion?
It’s different, parents to kids than adult to adult, I believe. At least for me. Romantic relationships and friendships both can experience compersion and dancing on that knife’s edge – not just romantic relationships.
But, I believe that also is another mystery – are romantic relationships separate from friendships at a very meta level?
PMS kinda brought this up last year.
Within my personal range, I don’t consider age much of a factor. I believe that’s related to the age that I’m at (43). Ten years ago, it was still in my realm of interest to be in a relationship with someone who was 20, but it didn’t work out well at all because we were in such different stages of life. Inversely, around age 30, I was in a relationship with a woman who was 50… and that was fine.
Now, I tend to forget to be consciously aware of age differences. Either we match up well or we don’t. Now, I have experienced some conflict due to age gaps – mostly because of of the different stages of life, again. Some stages having more impact on certain parts of life. One thing I’ve been aware of is how my cohort is gonna start getting into AARP range within a few years. I don’t have a good feel for how that might have an impact.
For better and for worse. Ha!. 😉
It’s made availability of instant on-demand communication much easier and lends towards total immersion at some times. But, it’s not the same as face-to-face communication… body language, etc. And it’s easier to unilaterally turn communication off when it’s via technology. So, I consider it a mixed blessing/curse, but more towards the blessing part.
Plus, the real nice (for me) part of it is being able to find kindred souls much easier through self-selecting communication and community. If I was stuck with only being able to meet locals in my ass-end of the universe, I think it’d be “clown shoes and a sniper rifle on top of Walmart” before too long.
Free chickens.
Don’t need to say any more.
Reciprocity is, for me, a key element in compersion. Not that the person whose pleasure I am vicariously sharing must be sharing whatever pleasure I happen to be feeling simultaneously… More like, the person whose pleasure I am sharing must hold me in equal esteem. Our whole relationship must be one of reciprocal regard. If it is not, then compersion doesn’t work for me. I guess, for me, compersion is part of “being in their corner.” And because of my high personal expectations in terms of energy and commitment and reciprocity where my relationships are concerned… If I’m in their corner… I know they’re in mine. And since a lot of the people who are “in my corner” are *not* people I have sex with (nor are they people whith whom I even remotely desire to have sex), compersion works on many levels. Like you said, it can be an element of familial or platonic love just as easily as it can the carnal variety.
For the record: I have no plans to join AARP. As an organization, they don’t appeal to me.
Also for the record: I do not affiliate with asses who wear clown shoes.
Free… Chickens…?
Uhmmm…
Durf?
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